Transcript: Ask the UXperts: How Psychology and Neuroscience Can Support Design — with Susan Weinschenk

Susan Weinschenk joined us in our Slack channel yesterday in what was one of the most popular sessions that I’ve run to date. She did a stellar job of keeping up with the quick-fire questions and the hour flew by.

The session marked the culmination of our theme for November – how psychology and neuroscience help us design for people. We used Susan’s book 100 Things Every Designer Needs to Know About People as the inspiration for our discussions so it was a fitting way to end the month.

If you didn’t make the session today because you didn’t know about it, make sure you join our community to get updates of upcoming sessions.

If you’re interested in seeing what we discussed, or you want to revisit your own questions, here is a full transcript of the chat.

Transcript

hawk

2017-11-28 23:00

Ok, let’s get this show on the road

hawk

2017-11-28 23:01

First up, thanks to you all for joining us today. I’m super pumped about this session – I’m a huge fan of @susanweinschenk’s work and I’ve really enjoyed reading her book this month

hawk

2017-11-28 23:01

(for those of you that aren’t aware, we used Susan’s book _100 Things Every Designer Needs to Know About People_ as the basis of our theme for November)

hawk

2017-11-28 23:02

And a very big thanks for you @susanweinschenk for taking the time this evening to answer our questions

hawk

2017-11-28 23:02

It’s an honour to host you here today

hawk

2017-11-28 23:02

So for the formal intro:

hawk

2017-11-28 23:02

Susan Weinschenk has a Ph.D. in Psychology, and is the Chief Behavioral Scientist and CEO at The Team W, Inc, as well as an Adjunct Professor at the University of Wisconsin.

hawk

2017-11-28 23:02

Susan consults on with Fortune 1000 companies, start-ups, governments and non-profits, and is the author of several books, including 100 Things Every Designer Needs To Know About People, 100 MORE Things Every Designer Needs To Know About People and How To Get People To Do Stuff. Susan is co-host of the HumanTech podcast, and writes her own blog and a column for Psychology Today online.

hawk

2017-11-28 23:03

If you haven’t read any of her work, I highly recommend that you do. Her writing style is very easily digestible.

hawk

2017-11-28 23:03

So Susan, over to you. Will you please give us a bit of an intro to the topic, which is _How Psychology and Neuroscience Can Support Design_

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:04

Hi Everyone.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:04

Glad to be here with you! From Wisconsin USA

davidbaird

2017-11-28 23:04

Welcome Susan

cmcneil

2017-11-28 23:05

BIG fan. Long time listener. First time caller.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:05

Well, basically I’m ready to talk about anything to do with the intersection of brain and behavioral science, people, technology, and design!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:05

(or anything else you want to ask me that you think i might know the answer to!)

hawk

2017-11-28 23:06

Well that makes it easy. QUESTIONS ARE GO…

charles

2017-11-28 23:06

I am curious to know if you are aware of any behavioral mimicry being applied with AI and if it crosses the uncanny valley

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:06

ooh, starting with a BIG question!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:06

I don’t know of anyone using mimicry with AI, but they might be

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:07

Any of the techniques to try to make machines more humanlike you have to watch out for the uncanny valley.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:07

If it’s TOO human like it bugs us.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:07

If it’s not human like ENOUGH it bugs us

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:07

we have pretty narrow tolerance

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:08

The AI and robots I’ve seen make me think that the behavioral scientists haven’t gotten all that involved, but i could be wrong.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:08

it’s typical for new technology — the technology part comes first and the human part comes later

jacqui_dow5

2017-11-28 23:09

I’m wondering if you have any insights on how the observation during a usability test will affect the results? I do usability testing both remotely and bringing people into our lab but have always wondered if they are really reacting and acting how they would if they werent being observed?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:09

The observation is going to affect them. But it might not effect them a lot

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:10

That’s why the skill of the tester is so important.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:10

There are many subtle ways the observer can effect the results.

jacqui_dow5

2017-11-28 23:11

What sort of things should we look out for to stop us affecting the results?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:11

and not so subtle too… i’ve seen testers that nod too much, interrupt too much, tap their pen on the table, sigh, and start scribbling or typing manically after the user takes an action

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:11

I suggest you record YOU and watch the videos with an experienced person who can point out what you are doing that might affect the results

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:12

You can also set up camera feeds and so and leave the room

jacqui_dow5

2017-11-28 23:12

ooh good idea, we often end up in the videos but not so much on purpose

uxresearchguy

2017-11-28 23:12

Hi and often tested with a moderator and separate note taker (or Observers logging things a la Dana Chisnells techniques) to maintain attention and listening

sara.hemmer

2017-11-28 23:13

Nice and agree about the observation and interruptions. But how do you check all biases at the door. So many are intrensic

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:13

you can’t check all of them, but you can try as much as possible. Watch other people run a test and learn from them, record yourself.

jacqui_dow5

2017-11-28 23:13

yes, we try to avoid the moderator taking notes, and have observers in a separate room for this purpose :slightly_smiling_face:

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:13

it helps if you are NOT testing your own design.

kiell

2017-11-28 23:13

hi! late to the party but here from Minnesota, USA

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:13

being an uninterested party helps a lot

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:14

i take on the mindset of a scientist running an experiment.

ashleamckay

2017-11-28 23:14

Hey Susan, love your work! I was diagnosed as autistic just under two years ago and I’d love to hear your thoughts on how we as UXers can help people understand and empathise with diversity that they can’t see? How can I help people understand that my differently wired brain is very real, permanent and not actually a bad thing? Thank you :slightly_smiling_face:

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:14

i don’t know what is going to happen and my job is just to observe and record

sara.hemmer

2017-11-28 23:14

That is helpful. I can avoid expectations, but other biases are so subtle. . .

davidbaird

2017-11-28 23:15

Given that most personalities fall into basic categories, does this affect your research (i.e knowing that people will have certain tendencies for behaviour).
Openness
Conscientiousness
Extraversion
Agreeableness
Neuroticism

uxresearchguy

2017-11-28 23:15

great and getting recordings audio transcribed for analysis helps in some cases too

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:15

Ashlea — back to the video idea… i find that if people can see and “meet” people (even if only on video) that interact differently that often helps them and reminds them that not everyone is the same.

davidbaird

2017-11-28 23:15

Sorry if that interupted others questions. Ill wait. !

flaxenink

2017-11-28 23:16

question: Are they any typical behaviors among users for a basic testing? like we have for design patterns?

hawk

2017-11-28 23:16

@davidbaird It’s all good – I’m queuing questions

bdevilliers

2017-11-28 23:17

Hi from France, a bit late too :slightly_smiling_face:

jacqui_dow5

2017-11-28 23:18

We record everything using Morae so we can watch back and make more notes but don’t tend to do full transcripts due to time constraints

uxresearchguy

2017-11-28 23:18

hopefully generates empathy

trh20

2017-11-28 23:18

Hi from Cleveland, Ohio!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:19

Ashlea: I know that autism can be difficult for many, but for many it is more of a difference than a problem. Brain science is showing us that the brain is much more flexible than we thought, and there is research to show that our brains are changing in response to our technology and our environment. Some people with autism are able to see patterns much better than those without. Microsoft has an entire department for pattern work where they tend to hire people with autism.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:19

@davidbaird Given that most personalities fall into basic categories, does this affect your research (i.e knowing that people will have certain tendencies for behaviour).
Openness
Conscientiousness
Extraversion
Agreeableness
Neuroticism

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:19

I don’t really take much stock in designing for personality traits.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:19

there is so much individual difference in this area, that it’s hard to design for

trh20

2017-11-28 23:20

I like what I’m hearing about autism being different!

anapaulafaria.design

2017-11-28 23:20

Susan technology is helping us measuring emotions. What tools do u recommend? Any thoughts about this subject? Tks!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:20

with the exception that if you KNOW that you are designing an app for neurotic people, then that would be something you could take into account in your design.

trh20

2017-11-28 23:20

Instead of an”problem”

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:21

many personality traits are situational anyway, and can change depending on mood, time of day, environment and so on

cmcneil

2017-11-28 23:21

Is there anything in your previous books that you would revise, with regard to the replication crisis?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:21

hawk [5:16 PM]
@flaxenink: Are they any typical behaviors among users for a basic testing? like we have for design patterns?

rebecator

2017-11-28 23:21

Hello, Susan! Do you have any insight about how the affective computing could improve the online education?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:22

can you say more about what you mean about typical patterns among users for user testing? I’m not sure what you are asking

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:22

@anapaulafaria.design Susan technology is helping us measuring emotions. What tools do u recommend? Any thoughts about this subject? Tks!

ashleamckay

2017-11-28 23:23

The hardest part about being autistic is convincing others that it’s an advantage not an inconvenience and that overall my strengths far outweigh any irritating things I do and say. I am very good at spotting patterns and much more – I’m just a little annoying! hahahah :slightly_smiling_face:

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:23

I think tools for measuring emotions are going to become more commonplace. But we may not be able to get much further for a while than “strong emotion” and “not strong emotion”

dave.d

2017-11-28 23:23

Question: Love your work Susan and I’m an avid listener of HumanTech – I’m a registered Psychologist working in Software development and like to use psychological research to inform some of my design decisions – do you have any research journals or blogs you check regularly with a focus on research?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:24

currently we can use tools that measure brain activity, respiration, galvanic skin response and so on. These are quite reliable and can tell you down to a specific moment whether people are a) paying attention, and b) having a strong emotional reaction.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:25

Is there anything in your previous books that you would revise, with regard to the replication crisis? — yes, there are some studies that I talked about a while back, in my “Neuro Web Design Book” that I don’t talk about anymore

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:25

John Bargh’s work I believe has not been replicated at all so I have dropped it.

uxresearchguy

2017-11-28 23:25

as always ‘it depends’ :slightly_smiling_face:

davidskodt

2017-11-28 23:25

That’s ok, I am a little annoying as well. :relieved:

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:26

It’s hard when it’s a book since it’s not like you can go back and change a blog post that is online!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:26

but i do try and keep up and I change my keynotes and my workshops to reflect what seems to be replicated and what doesn’t.

vgaizutis

2017-11-28 23:26

In a small shop, the UX designer may also be the one conducting usability tests. There is a perception that the designer won’t be impartial since it’s their design being tested. Let’s say the designer isn’t married to their designs; that they are indeed impartial. How do they convince stakeholders of this when it comes time to review results?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:27

@rebecator Hello, Susan! Do you have any insight about how the affective computing could improve the online education? — can you say more about this one… what in particular do you consider affective computing?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:27

@dave.d Question: Love your work Susan and I’m an avid listener of HumanTech – I’m a registered Psychologist working in Software development and like to use psychological research to inform some of my design decisions – do you have any research journals or blogs you check regularly with a focus on research?

trh20

2017-11-28 23:27

Thank you Susan for your insights. How do you measure emotions changing over time?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:29

Thanks for listening to the podcast! Yes, I follow lots of research journals and blogs. I don’t have a list here off the top of my head, but perhaps I can get a list to our channel hosts and they can publish it after the fact?

hawk

2017-11-28 23:29

Happy to do that :slightly_smiling_face:

hawk

2017-11-28 23:29

I can include it in the transcript

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:29

@vgaizutis In a small shop, the UX designer may also be the one conducting usability tests. There is a perception that the designer won’t be impartial since it’s their design being tested. Let’s say the designer isn’t married to their designs; that they are indeed impartial. How do they convince stakeholders of this when it comes time to review results?

cdenhaan

2017-11-28 23:30

:+1:

davidskodt

2017-11-28 23:30

Hi Susan,
So in a talk you gave called “Top ten things you need to know about perception”, you state that negative space is “wasted” because peripheral vision gives us unconscious impressions, but I often read about the importance of negative space for increasing legibility and comprehension. Can you elaborate a little bit on what you think about this, and how YOU think negative space should be utilized?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:31

You can definitely test your own designs IF you are careful to not be attached. To convince others of that — you could try several things: have someone else test one of your designs and record everything so people can see you tend to do the same type of tests as others; be quite critical of your own design in some places, i.e., be your own harshest critic

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:31

Thank you Susan for your insights. How do you measure emotions changing over time?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:32

I don’t think we are very good at measuring emotions changing over time from a pure measurement point of view. The only way we can do it now really is to ask people and then ask again, and ask again, but I do not consider asking people how or what they feel to be very reliable.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:33

So in a talk you gave called “Top ten things you need to know about perception”, you state that negative space is “wasted” because peripheral vision gives us unconscious impressions, but I often read about the importance of negative space for increasing legibility and comprehension. Can you elaborate a little bit on what you think about this, and how YOU think negative space should be utilized?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:33

I wouldn’t have said specifically that negative space is wasted. It’s space on the periphery of vision that is wasted.

hawk

2017-11-28 23:33

We’re at the end of the queue if anyone wants to jump in with a question

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:34

negative space is always important in general, but if you just have big blank areas in peripheral vision that you are not using the power of peripheral vision

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:34

and I haven’t answered the question on affective computing if that person would like to say a little more about that

hawk

2017-11-28 23:35

From @lukcha: If Susan has them, I’d love to hear reader feedback and any interesting stories she’s collected about how designers have applied these #100things to their products to get a meaningful outcome.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:36

I get emails all the time from people who tell me about how they are using the material in the book. I’m always happy to hear from people. It is amazing that so many people are reading the book and trying things out. I get some pretty funny emails too!

mcleanmel

2017-11-28 23:36

What are some principles you use when considering how to design peripheral space to put it to best use?

trh20

2017-11-28 23:37

So to measure emotions changing over time, you would observe, and observe again at a later point in time? Because people usually don’t like change but then grow accustomed to the new design.

jacqui_dow5

2017-11-28 23:37

In your book you talk about there being 4 ways to be creative. Next week we are having a session with stakeholders to gather some requirements for a new project and I was wondering what is going to be the best way to get them thinking creatively? (One is the development manager, and the other is the support manager)

jason.hightman

2017-11-28 23:37

Hi Susan … Could you share your opinion on applications with tons of data to view and/or input. Some tend to try and cram as much as they can into a screen while others prefer to spread things out a bit. Have you seen a trend with users when faced with either scenario?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:37

Peripheral vision is very blurry, so don’t put in a lot of detail. But DO put in peripheral vision: images that show emotion, danger (if appropriate), info that gives the “gist” of where the person is (logo, navigation bar and so on)

anja

2017-11-28 23:38

Hi from Sydney Australia.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:38

@trh20 So to measure emotions changing over time, you would observe, and observe again at a later point in time? Because people usually don’t like change but then grow accustomed to the new design.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:39

yes it’s true that people don’t like change, and they may become accustomed to the new design. I like to use what I call “exploratory research” to find out what people are thinking

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:39

and feeling.

davidskodt

2017-11-28 23:39

I have a philosophical question.
There is a trend where we are becoming more introverted through technology, as we get a sense of being social through social media. Do you think this will continue to worsen, and is it a problem that we should be talking more about?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:39

so i set up a scenario and ask them to talk about “the last time you bought clothing online”

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:39

and then have them walk me through a story. within that conversation i can start to explore how they feel

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:40

it’s like being a therapist!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:40

@jacqui_dow5 In your book you talk about there being 4 ways to be creative. Next week we are having a session with stakeholders to gather some requirements for a new project and I was wondering what is going to be the best way to get them thinking creatively? (One is the development manager, and the other is the support manager)

krisztina

2017-11-28 23:41

In one of your books (I think in the 100 things…), you talk about the limitations of eye-tracking – one of those is that it only captures the central vision – do this limitation still apply? Are there any better eye-tracking devices? Have you used eye-tracking in any of your projects in the last few years? Thanks for your answer!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:41

now there is a topic that I have changed my thoughts on. — there is new research on creativity that I have in my online course on creativity that unfortunately isn’t in my book.

davidbaird

2017-11-28 23:41

I see people get really caught up in detail when they try to explain their actions, yet do the complete opposite when they actually interact with a product – actions speak louder than words, but how do you trust what a person says they want in a product?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:42

hmm… how to give that info in a slack channel? here’s a really short version… focus on the problem you want to solve or the idea you want to come up with creative approaches to. then forget about it for a few hours or a few days. then pay attention to the ideas that occur “spontaneously” over the next few days

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:42

@jason.hightman Hi Susan … Could you share your opinion on applications with tons of data to view and/or input. Some tend to try and cram as much as they can into a screen while others prefer to spread things out a bit. Have you seen a trend with users when faced with either scenario?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:43

totally depends on the application and context. If it is a call center and people need to have quick access to the info and they are VERY familiar with the app, then put as much as you can on one screen. Otherwise, figure out what people need to know and when and use progressive disclosure to give them what they need at a certain point.

jacqui_dow5

2017-11-28 23:43

How have your thoughts on it changed? And do you have any advice for getting them to think as creatively as possible, not getting bogged down in technicalities and detail

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:44

@davidskodt I have a philosophical question.
There is a trend where we are becoming more introverted through technology, as we get a sense of being social through social media. Do you think this will continue to worsen, and is it a problem that we should be talking more about?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:44

I don’t think we are being more introverted with technology. I think we are communicating differently. I’m not worried about it because we are very social beings and will use any technology to be social.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:45

I AM worried about AI and machines taking over.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:45

@krisztina In one of your books (I think in the 100 things…), you talk about the limitations of eye-tracking – one of those is that it only captures the central vision – do this limitation still apply? Are there any better eye-tracking devices? Have you used eye-tracking in any of your projects in the last few years? Thanks for your answer!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:46

correct. eye tracking measures central vision only. There is no eyetracking machine I know of that tracks peripheral vision. I have worked on projects where others are using eye tracking, but I don’t use it much on my own since I believe the limitations are well… limiting!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:46

@davidbaird I see people get really caught up in detail when they try to explain their actions, yet do the complete opposite when they actually interact with a product – actions speak louder than words, but how do you trust what a person says they want in a product? (edited)

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:47

Yes, i agree, and basically you can’t just listen to what people say in a product. that’s why you have to do design (not just implement what they asked for), and why you have to do lots of iterative prototyping and testing and be ready to change things when people realize what will actually work

trh20

2017-11-28 23:48

So you have an opinion on how technology use has affected text reading? Can students adapt to both? It’s my sense that they can.

davidbaird

2017-11-28 23:48

Thanks, that makes sense. It’s kind of a combination of bits of ideas, or the genesis of ideas coming from verbal ‘wants’ or feedback.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:49

trh20 [5:48 PM]
So you have an opinion on how technology use has affected text reading? Can students adapt to both? It’s my sense that they can. — there is a great book (that I will also have put in the transcript) about how technology is changing how we read. There are people doing research on this.

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:50

the short answer is that we are maintaining our ability to read long narratives, but we are also honing our skills in skimming and scanning.

jo.ingram7

2017-11-28 23:50

Hi Susan, following on from the eye tracking discussion, mouse tracking heat maps (such as hot jar and crazy egg) seem to be gaining popularity as a quick and easy way to see what is working. What sort of weight do you give to these tools?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:51

reading is NOT something we are born with teh capability of. our brains change and “steal” resources from other faculties in order to read. It is an example of our brain’s flexibility

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:51

mouse tracking heat maps show you where people clicked and that can be useful. but you don’t know why, so user testing is always helpful.

bdevilliers

2017-11-28 23:52

Hi Susan, what do you think about mixed reality ? I’m thinking about Microsoft Hololens. Also how would you adapt your design process for mixed reality ?

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:53

I have some guidelines for designing for mixed reality that I have put together. they are in one of our online courses. It’s a great topic and you made me realize I should write a blog post about it!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:54

The design process for mixed reality is similar to our “regular” design processes

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:54

BUT you really have to take context into account

krisztina

2017-11-28 23:54

What are your favorite user interview questions? (e.g. Kim Goodwin wrote that she likes to ask what the interviewee would do with a magic wand)

hayley.martin

2017-11-28 23:55

has joined #ask-the-uxperts

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:56

my favorites are the ones I use in the exploratory research I mentioned earlier — “Tell me about the last time you….”, “Was it fun?” “What would make it more fun?” “How do you know that the people who own this (product, website, etc) care about you?” and so on

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:56

i find that if i ask open ended questions people open up and end up talking about what is really important to them

hawk

2017-11-28 23:56

4 minutes left. Anyone got anything urgent?

uxresearchguy

2017-11-28 23:57

this has been brilliant

trh20

2017-11-28 23:57

Thank you, Susan!

hawk

2017-11-28 23:58

Ok, this is probably a good time to call it!

sbieleny

2017-11-28 23:58

Thanks Susan!

susanweinschenk

2017-11-28 23:58

Thanks everyone for your great questions and for your support of what we do in our books and podcast and so on!

jacqui_dow5

2017-11-28 23:59

thank you :slightly_smiling_face:

davidskodt

2017-11-28 23:59

Thank you, Susan :slightly_smiling_face:

roslynn

2017-11-28 23:59

thank you for the insights and the inspiration @susanweinschenk!

anapaulafaria.design

2017-11-28 23:59

Tks Susan :ok_hand:

patricia.b

2017-11-28 23:59

Thank you Susan. Greetings from Dublin, Ireland!

jo.ingram7

2017-11-28 23:59

Thanks Susan

krisztina

2017-11-28 23:59

Thanks for your insightful answers!

hawk

2017-11-28 23:59

Thanks so much for your time today @susanweinschenk – respect.

The post Transcript: Ask the UXperts: How Psychology and Neuroscience Can Support Design — with Susan Weinschenk appeared first on UX Mastery.

by Sarah Hawk via UX Mastery